Both helmet have a similar dome and similar skirt. The helmet was rimless and was painted a smooth dark-green color. WW1 Canadian British CEF BEF Brodie Helmet & Liner. dailyinfo[17]=' PLY/3566 Private Samuel ROBINSON H.M.S. Commonly referred to as the "Kelly" between 1932 and 1936 the M1917 and the British MK1 helmets in America. There are some small differences though, one being British chinstrap have stamped steel or brass slide buckles while the Americans favored cast steel slide buckles. Greetings. WW1 Brodie Helmet - posted in Fallout 4 Mod Requests: Has anyone considered making a WW1 Brodie Helmet for Fallout 4? H.M.S. Surely there is only one Great War Forum!!! WW1 Brodie British Helmet Original C. 1916 455.00 Click & Collect 12.00 postage or Best Offer 26 watching WW1 US AEF 30th Division Patch Painted Brodie Helmet 190.63 29.65 postage 10 watching Original USA American WW1 M-1917 Brodie Helmet with Original Sand Finish w Liner 317.72 63.54 postage or Best Offer . dailyinfo[24]=' Captain Denzil Robert THURSTON Air Force Cross Airship Training Wing (Cranwell). Mark 2 Belgian Clone of the British Brodie helmet. I suppose it also is one of the images of the start of WWII for the US with forces in the Pacific wearing it while under Japanese attack at Wake Island and Pearl Harbour. Kings Royal Rifle Corps who died 02/03/1915 YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL Belgium ' One of the main purposes of it was to essentially allow the head to breathe and sweat inside the steel cap. Yet more often than not the seller has no idea if the helmet is actually of British or American manufacture, and the buyer has no idea either. Mar 08, 2023 1914-18 WW1 ARMY SWORD & SCABBARD $20. Capac = Capac Manufacturing Co - Michigan. Most American helmet do have heating lot numbers. New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' Twenty years of peace followed the end of the First World War before another major international conflict broke out. Share 9 posts Mariner109 16 Gefreiter Mar 27, 2010 #1 My buddy has a Brodie Helmet which he might be offering for sale. The British cleverly dealt with this problem by issuing their men with a Hessian cloth cover. Just sold the ARVN ranger helmet. Bluecher German Navy who died 29/01/1915 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' stepback_antiques 12 years ago. Lots of exciting helmets coming in the near future. I'm sorry I could not find a post 1916 stamp (see below for two examples of post Aug 1916 stamps. The series of number which follow the manufacture mark is a heating lot number used by the factory in the manufacturing process. This style of helmet had been in use since the 1st World War and was often colloquially known as the Tommy helmet in the UK or as the Doughboy helmet in the US. Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks Remembered Today: 1081780 Sapper Bedford Stanley LONG "D" Coy. A Google search only returns one hit-another helmet with the stamp-but I dont see XHF in any manufacturer listings. dailyinfo[26]=' Chaplain 4th Class The Rev. As a result, it was estimated that the M1 had saved the lives of approximately 70,000 men between the outbreak of the war in late 1941 and its conclusion in the autumn of 1945. In August 1915 he acquired a patent for a steel helmet design of his own, one which could be produced from a single sheet of steel pressed into the first basic Brodie helmet. dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The helmet shell is indeed a M1* with an early made Vero liner. No liner and what looks like a disintegrating pad (asbestos concern?). I need help identifying some markings on the second world war brodie. Many originals show evidence of the bails being replaced. "Foyle." Get 5% Off With Coupon Code itscold Offer Ends 3/1/2023, The Brodie to the M1: The Evolution of Americas Most Famous Military Helmet. Follow. 1st Bn. dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. I bought aBrodie helmet and I'm not sure from witch war or time the helmet is from. M1 Helmet Identification; Shipping; Sizing; 1-877-862-5245; TOP POTS - DEDICATED TO M-1 HELMET PRESERVATION. Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' The M1917 Brodie Helmet was manufactured by the Columbian Enameling and Stamping Company (Terre Haute, IN, USA). Pasted as rich text. The helmet came without the liner and the onlymark in the helmet is 4B and I don't know why but under every scratch looks red maybe the helmet was red. Consequently the Infantry Board resumed its experiments to produce a new design. The design was esentially the same in WW2, but there are a number of specific differences between the two and once you recognise these differences, such as the width of the brim (wider in WW1), you find you can tell one from another very easily. 4th Bn. First thing is to see if you can figure out the unit emblem on the helmet. For a quarter of a century between the early stages of the First World War through to the first years of the Second World War the Brodie was the standard issue headgear for all British troops. I believe they were numbered 1-24. You cannot paste images directly. You can post now and register later. The real beardy types, anoraks and train spotters would only consider the type A and B as true Brodies. Incredibly, given that the M1 was being used by some advanced militaries as recently as the 1990s and is still employed by a few countries today, the development of it dates back to the First World War in the mid-1910s. The helmet was manufactured in just one stamping procedure. MILITARIA COLLECTING Want to read more? Royal Engineers who died 31/01/1919 COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Germany ' View detail. So. Royal Army Medical Corps who died 22/02/1919 NUNHEAD (ALL SAINTS) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' NPH FOR SALE! This helmet was called The Helmet, Steel, Mark I but is also sometimes referred to as the Brodie steel helmet or the Brodie Mark I helmet. The story, for many years I wanted a bog standard WW2 Cdn pattern helmet for my collection, mainly a display piece. He worked in Eastgate House, Exter. He was on guard duties mostly on the rooftops of parliament apparently with Churchill quite a lot. Worcestershire Regiment who died 23/02/1915 LOKER CHURCHYARD Belgium ' Early Mark I helmet initially had thisfeature only to be discontinue in mid 1916. Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co - Terre Haute - Indiana. That's a tough one without knowing what the actual letters are. . OPH That's how the helmet got its official name as well. I would say the paintwork on your helmet is original. You can post now and register later. The British did have an upgrade that was never adopted by the Americans. Sign up for a new account in our community. Pasted as rich text. In fact they all look the same to me apart from the liners 5 seconds on the google http://thebrodiehelmet.weebly.com/. depaor014 January , 2013 in Uniforms,Cap Badges and Insignia. . This is due to the split rivet shearing away from strain and the near constant moister of the Western Front. In addition, the heads of soldiers had relatively greater exposure than other body areas above the parapets in the European trench warfare of that period, and the British "Brodie" helmet and the nearly identical U.S. Marine Corps Doughboy helmet gave insufficient protection to the back of the skull (in contrast to the protection afforded by . Hi, I recently found my Step-dad's Father's WW2 Mk.1* Brodie. Display as a link instead, Why I speak of our Canadian Great war forumyou know, us Canadians? In WW1 Allies: Great Britain, France, USA, etc 1914 - 1918, In Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siy Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939, blue brodie helmet(or not) identification, Advice on purchasing a British Military MKII Helmet. Could be Kenny, it's not a British stamp mark socould have beenmade by one of the allied countries , if, it is American then it could be a M1917AI used between 1936 - 1941, the same period the MKII chin-strap. var daym=mydate.getDate() View detail. 2nd Bn. You cannot paste images directly. crewnail 2 years ago. dailyinfo[15]=' SS/342 Able Seaman Henry George SMITH (RFR/CH/B/5534). lol. "Foyle." Upload or insert images from URL. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' dailyinfo[27]=' 5778 Private William CUMMINGS 6th Bn. "The French came up with the first 'proper' helmet. This was particularly the case when it came to trench warfare where shrapnel and debris rained down on soldiers heads from above. A soup dish style helmet from the Great War, offered for sale islabeledincorrectly. . See Details. I think I have read it is thought to be another mark of Firth and sons, but that make no reason for the K. I think it is quite a common mark though. By this time a number of additional changes had been introduced to the rim design and the helmet was now known as the Mark I. Hi J.H.E. if (dailyinfo[daym] != "") { document.write(fontstart+dailyinfo[daym]+fontend) } That is a nice looking 'Helmet MkII' in remarkably good condition - especially the liner. Unfortunately, your registration has been declined by the auctioneer. i read threads forum about brodie he It's easy! Over time this would nullify any anti-reflective properties the finish possessed thus putting the wearing in danger. They also have a similar liner and chinstrap. dailyinfo[9]=' Boy SALEH HAJI S.S. TANGISTAN (Swansea).Indian Merchant Service who died 09/03/1915 BOMBAY 1914-1918 MEMORIAL, MUMBAI India ' ''Everyday you think of living. The British 'Tommy' Colloquially, it was called the shrapnel helmet, battle bowler, Tommy helmet, tin hat, and in the United States the doughboy helmet. By holding a British shell in one hand and an American shell in the other the weight difference is obvious. Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' The cover was made from the same type of cloth the sand bags the held up the trench wall were made of. The Brodie helmet, called Helmet, steel, Mark I helmet in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the U.S., was a steel combat helmet designed and patented in 1915 by the Briton John L. Brodie. By DizzyDeano96 12 months ago. else { document.write(fontstart+"No major events today"+fontend); } Nearly three million of these M1917 helmets were produced by the time that the war ended in November 1918, clearly indicating the importance of an effective military helmet for the American armed forces going forward. of a WW1 helmet this normally means it's milder steel used and not for combat use. Leinster Regiment who died 27/02/1918 JERUSALEM MEMORIAL Israel and Palestine (including Gaza) ' This difference along is enough identify the origin of the helmet. I have had a good look at your helmet again and managed to find another one to compare,This is an American, Here is a British made helmet from the same period, look at the rim joint how clean the joint is put together, now take a look at the rim joints. Helmets and Headgear, Shortly after the US declaration of war in April of 1917 the US ordered around 400,000 helmets from the British for use by, the American Expeditionary Force. By The steel cap could not be used without the liner, but the liner could be worn on its own and indeed was regularly employed for this purpose in ceremonial settings within the army, or as protective headgear in civil society, by, for instance, policemen and fire brigades. The design of the helmet is familiar to anyone who has seen a First World War movie. dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. dailyinfo[25]=' 262952 Private Archibald Stanley BURGNEAY 8th Bn. It may be tempting for some to say because the two types of helmets look so similar they are the same. There is also a drill hole on rear of the brim. stands for General Steel Wares of Toronto, who made helmets from 1940 to 1942. While the M1917 and Brodie helmets appear very similar, a few characteristics like the chinstrap ball, construction material and paint were slightly different. Everything for sale on WW2Helmets.com is completely legal to own, trade, sell and transport within the United States of America. As for the number/letter code, that is the code for the manufacturer and the manufacturer's lot number. Few military helmets that have ever been manufactured are as iconic as the Brodie helmet. var fontstart = '' I have never seen one with a leather liner like this, it is spiralled around the entire helmet. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN France ' were refurbished and modified with a new leather liner and web chinstrap. Follow on Instagram, The British Mark I Brodie & the U.S. P17, know the difference, M42 winter camo. Fully restored with river gravel finis var fontend = '' Known Heat or Manufacturer Lot code Stamp Marks of M1917 shells. Alexander & Sons The Brodie was the first modern military helmet developed by Britain. Helmets were procured from British supply until such point as the Americans could supply themselves with their own helmets. The main part of the helmet was the steel shell or cap which was produced from non-magnetic Hadfield Steel, a steel and manganese alloy similar to that which the British had begun to employ to make the Brodie helmet as early as 1916. The M1 came in two parts, a hard metal shell or cap on the outside, and an inner liner hat made out of softer and more malleable materials. By knowing about a few small details the buyer will never make the mistake of purchase the wrong helmet. It continued in use through the relatively peaceful years of the 1920s and when war loomed again in the late 1930s it was still in use. The steel for the M1917 helmets was rolled by the American Sheet and Tin Plate Co and were stamped with a Heat or Lot code, The helmet liners were made by 10 Shoe Manufacturing Company's, the shells and liners would be delivered to the. June 9, 2018 in Re: Help Identifying Brodie Helmet A post 1939 dated British Mk2, have a look around the chin strap lugs for a date/maker name. The Both the liners and the chinstrap on the British and its American cousin are almost identical. For slow learners: A Brodie is simply the design of British Army helmet worn in both WWI and WW2, and not a particular type of WWI helmet? The first letters representthe company who pressed the helmet. I need help identifying some markings on the second world war brodie. The Brodie helmet is a steel combat helmet designed and patented in London in 1915 by Latvian inventor John Leopold Brodie (Latvian: Leopolds Janno Braude).A modified form of it became the Helmet, Steel, Mark I in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the US. A-125-2 ID IN SHELL (HG-43) WWII GERMAN SS M-42 HELMET IN ORIGINAL SHIPPING CRATE. the problem is that, all the war time services such as the ARP, NFS, and various Civil Defence Units as well as the Home Guard all were. Simultaneously, though, the administration of Woodrow Wilson ordered the production of an American-made helmet. Recently on another Great war forum, a collector asked what the FKS on the inside of his WW1 brodie shell meant. Royal Air Force who died 24/02/1919 LINCOLN (NEWPORT) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' I am pretty sure the ww2 helmet was worn protecting/ patrolling the British Houses of Parliament after he was injured in standard service. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. 14th Bde. accross the pond,? Powered by Invision Community, (In no particular order) The threads that discuss the helmet will contain lots more information. Thanks for the info lads. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Kings Royal Rifle Corps who died 02/03/1915 YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL Belgium ' The M1 was eventually used in virtually every part of the globe, certainly everywhere that fell within the American sphere of influence during the Cold War, from the Balkans to much of South America and from West Germany to Singapore. Royal Welsh Fusiliers who died 11/03/1915 FAUQUISSART MILITARY CEMETERY, LAVENTIE France ' brodie helmet All Auction Buy it now 386 results Service Type Country/ Organization Era Issued/ Not-Issued Condition Price Buying format All filters WW 2 BRODIE NFS Helmet 1940. Hi Tom, welcome to the forum. if (year < 1000) year+=1900 Bluecher German Navy who died 29/01/1915 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' dailyinfo[6]=' 345190 Sapper Forrest A. KNOWLES Canadian Signal Corps who died 06/03/1921 REIDS MILLS CEMETERY Canada ' The American manufactures used an entirely different method to apply the paint to the helmets. Both were manufactured using a similar process. dailyinfo[31]=' 420628 Sapper William Bayne YOUNG 63rd Field Coy. The helmet resembles an upside down dishpan or washbasin in that it consists of a bowl-shaped cap and a large uniform brim running around the entire exterior. Though we never call it that. The bail holder is secured to the helmets skirt with a steel harness rivet. on the American helmet they look very crudely overlapped. Keeping a village shop going, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. British chinstrap bail The chinstrap bails on a British Mark I and a U.S. P17 are of a completely different design. It looks like it's stamped 'JSS' above the date marking, which is the maker's mark for Joseph Sankey & Sons Ltd, who produced helmet shells from 1938 to 1941. The liner can always be a replacementthough that style screams WWI and should be held in place with a rivet.. dailyinfo[2]=' 8020 Serjeant Charles POOLE "C" Coy. After many experiments, Brodie came to the conclusion that a relatively simple form of helmet would offer reasonable protection, be serviceable and cheap to produce in large numbers. In total the steel cap, liner and the accoutrements such as the chinstrap weighed 2.85 pounds or 1.29 kgs. Royal Army Medical Corps who died 22/02/1919 NUNHEAD (ALL SAINTS) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' My M1915 adrian helmet from the belgium army and british Brodie Mk1 helmet used from the USA, Haller's Blue Army Soldier: Uniform Identification. Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. Seaforth Highlanders who died 20/03/1919 BEIRUT WAR CEMETERY Lebanese Republic ' U.S. P17 chinstrap bail It was replaced by the M1917AI. Awesome, thanks for the replies. Remembered Today: blue brodie helmet(or not) identification; Display your banner here. Powered by Invision Community, US WW1 and WW2 Brodie Helmets and Maker Stamps. dailyinfo[24]=' Captain Denzil Robert THURSTON Air Force Cross Airship Training Wing (Cranwell). English: The "Brodie" shrapnel helmet was the flat steel helmet worn by British Empire troops in the first and second world wars, and U.S. troops in World War I. My buddy has a Brodie Helmet which he might be offering for sale. 4th Bn. Few military helmets, whether in modern times, or further back, have the distinction of being used in over ten major wars. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' OPB Hi, thanks for your reply. "We Cannot Always Buy What We Want, But We Buy What We Can". Available on our website now Remembered Today: 6 Reserve Lorry Park Royal Air Force who died 28/02/1919 BELGRADE CEMETERY Belgium ' Highland Light Infantry who died 19/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' By Parrotman287 1 year ago. A later study at the end of the Second World War would show that approximately 54% of bullets which hit the M1 of servicemen in Europe and the Pacific failed to penetrate the helmet. The high temperature of the oven caused the lead based paint to melt briefly before hardening which encapsulated the saw dust particles securing them to the helmets surface. Benjamin Electric Co - Des Plaines - Illinois. SHIPPED TO "MRS. C DeSIMONE" IN MARCUS HOOK PENNA" FROM HER HUSBAND "PFC JOE . = Hawley Products Co - Illinois. The helmets I have seen wereUSM1 helmets, however they might have worn the Brodie pattern too earlier on. Developed by John L. Brodie, the Model 1915 "Brodie" helmet, also known as the "Tommy" helmet, was the first steel helmet introduced to British soldiers during WW1. A thick felt pad was fitted to the top of the skull interior to aid in cushioning against impact. This dilemmaseems to become particularly problematic for the British reenactors who after spending hundred of dollars on their kit accidentally purchase an American helmet because they dont know the difference, or for collectors who want one or the other represented in their collection. In the photo it looks like it could be surface rust? var mydate=new Date() The colour is fine looks to be the factory green finish, you can buy second hand original liners on line as long as it is for the MkII helmet. The most obvious difference may be observed by turning the helmet over. There is also a very faded 1st division emblem painted on the helmet. By Willow1 3 years ago. = Mine Safety Appliance Co - Pennsylvania. Although the helmet shells do look the same they do not feel the same. 1999-11-70-31 The Brodie design featured a brim 2in (5cm) wide, which protected the head and shoulders from above. The M1 offered exceptional protection. Paste as plain text instead, This cloth by it very nature blended in well and covered up any shiny paint on the helmets finish. If so I know the US Navy used red painted helmets on their ships fordamage control teams. Royal Horse Artillery who died 21/02/1917 GUARDS CEMETERY, COMBLES France ' Some developed nations such as Australia and Canada even continued to use it well into the 1990s. This list is on going if you know of any more please let us know. These will comfortably fit a head size 57-58 cm, or a tight 59. 309.60 Buy It Now. He worked in WhiteHall prior to the war as a chartered surveyor. Canadian Railway Troops who died 18/12/1918 BUSIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France GWF is free to use so please support the Forum Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks By Vimyridge